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Slobodan Milosevic's Cross-Examination of
Croatian President Stjepan Mesic: PART XIV
Because the transcript of the cross-examination is very pages long we have
broken it into 2 easy to read segments.
================================= 

Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French and English transcripts.

1 it. That is a book about the Miljevac Plateau, with pictures of corpses.

2 The book about Maslenica also. This is 1992. This is 1993. The exodus

3 in 1995. Persons who went missing, Western Slavonia. 1995. All these

4 attacks were carried out against UN-protected areas. How do you explain

5 that, Mr. Mesic, that you attacked all the UNPAs?

6 JUDGE MAY: We are being asked by the interpreters to remind you

7 to slow down, both the accused and the witness.

8 Now, Mr. Mesic, the allegation is that there were attacks on the

9 protected areas. Perhaps you could deal with those.

10 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] There were only responses to

11 attacks. Croatia had to re-establish traffic on its roads. Croatia had

12 to ensure normal life in its towns, and they were under attack, under

13 attack at all roads in Croatia. As for Maslenica, it is a well-known fact

14 that this is an area above the Adriatic highway and Croatia was

15 practically cut in two and Croatia had to ensure the possibility of

16 traffic taking place.

17 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

18 Q. Mr. Mesic, it is my claim that the Serbs accepted the Vance plan,

19 that they carried out demilitarisation, that they were guarded by the UN

20 and that you attacked them and that you expelled them from the areas that

21 were protected by the UN. These are historical facts. Are you denying

22 that? Are you claiming that that's not the way it was?

23 A. Of course I'm denying that, because, quite simply --

24 JUDGE MAY: Let the witness finish. Let the witness make an

25 explanation. Yes.

1 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation] Great.

2 Q. Mr. Mesic --

3 JUDGE MAY: Let him finish.

4 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] He has finished, Mr. May.

5 JUDGE MAY: Can you add anything, Mr. Mesic, to that, about the

6 protected areas?

7 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Correct. I can add that disarmament

8 was not carried out.

9 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

10 Q. Mr. Mesic, we are not going to go into that now. I don't have

11 time to exhibit these books and these abominations. Whether the Serbs

12 observed the zones under UN protection is not something that I'm going to

13 contest, because it's quite clear that they did and that you did not. So

14 now we have to proceed.

15 JUDGE MAY: Put a question. You're not giving evidence.

16 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Please.

17 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

18 Q. You came to the head of the Presidency on the 1st of July, 1991.

19 Within three months' time, until the 1st of October, you held 15 sessions

20 of this highest organ of the Federation, at which discussions were held on

21 halting hostilities and on a peaceful resolution to the Yugoslav crisis.

22 I did not attend a single one of these sessions. You rarely invited the

23 presidents of the republics, these 15 sessions that I'm referring to. Did

24 any member of the Presidency of the SFRY, as you put it, from the pro-Serb

25 bloc, was against stopping hostilities and finding a peaceful resolution

1 to the crisis? At these 15 sessions that you convened, was a single one

2 of them against it?

3 A. Even a commission was stopped -- was formed to stop the

4 hostilities. It was headed by Branko Kostic, member of the Presidency.

5 As a matter of fact, he was vice-president of the Presidency. This

6 commission was actually a commission for fanning the flames of war, and

7 that's the way they behaved. They had support among the Serbian bloc,

8 which was headed by Borislav Jovic. And he, on the other hand, had direct

9 communication with the accused.

10 Q. Are you trying to say that they opposed a peaceful solution, that

11 they did not want a peaceful solution?

12 A. Correct. That is precisely what I'm saying.

13 Q. The minutes that you presented here shows that on the 1st of

14 October, six members of the Presidency were present. I just want to

15 correct you in terms of what you said yesterday. And the decision on the

16 demobilisation of all armed groups on the territory of the SFRY, except

17 for the JNA, and the regular peacetime police force, and that was supposed

18 to take place as of the 18th of July, 1991, as of midnight, and you

19 personally signed that decision, Mr. Mesic. You signed that decision on

20 behalf of the SFRY Presidency to disarm everyone except for the JNA and

21 the peacetime police force, and you armed your own ZNGs, members of the

22 national guard, and other paramilitaries who were plundering and killing

23 all over Croatia, and there is also --

24 JUDGE MAY: You must allow the witness to answer.

25 Yes, Mr. Mesic. No. You've been speaking for a long time.

1 Mr. Mesic, what's suggested is that you were disarming everyone except the

2 ZNG.

3 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The accused knows full well that

4 these were illegal paramilitary organisations that had to be disarmed, and

5 I agree with that. As for the ZNG, the National Guard Corps is not an

6 illegal paramilitary organisation. It is an institution established

7 within the Ministry of the Interior, but it was armed. So this is a legal

8 organisation, not an illegal organisation.

9 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

10 Q. Mr. Mesic, item 1 of this decision that you signed reads as

11 follows: To demobilise all armed units in the territory of the SFRY, the

12 Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, except for the JNA and the

13 regular peacetime police force, by the 18th of July, 1991, 2400 hours.

14 There is no mention of legal, illegal. It says everyone, all armed units

15 except for the army and the police. You signed that decision, and now you

16 are claiming, because the ZNG --

17 JUDGE MAY: You must come to a question.

18 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

19 Q. You were aware of the crimes from the report of Stjepan Herzog

20 published in 2002 on the 29th of January. It was published by Novi List.

21 He says there is certain information about illegal arrests of peace-loving

22 citizens of Serb ethnicity who are taken away and nobody knows whether

23 they are dead or alive. That pertains to the liquidation of the Serbs in

24 1991. It says that this was addressed to the Committee for the Protection

25 of the Constitutional Order, to Tudjman, et cetera. You knew about all of

1 that, didn't you, Mr. Mesic?

2 A. Such a letter was not sent to me. After I was elected to this

3 office, I found this. Croatia did not always function as a state based on

4 the rule of law. It is today, though. And these crimes are being

5 investigated. If it is correct -- if what Mr. Stjepan Herzog established

6 then is correct, the perpetrators will be brought to justice. Croatia

7 today is a state based on the rule of law.

8 Q. Mr. Mesic, I'm not asking you about anything that is taking place

9 today. You keep explaining this period of time when you were responsible

10 for crimes against Serbs by saying that, I don't know, that the parliament

11 decide this, that you were not being asked about this, that you were --

12 JUDGE MAY: This is going over old ground yet again. Now, your

13 time is now up. You can ask, though, two more questions if you wish, but

14 they must be new questions.

15 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Well, that's precisely the question

16 I put: Was Mr. Mesic some invisible man who was not in this leadership

17 that was responsible for these crimes, or does he consider himself to be

18 one of the persons responsible for these crimes against Yugoslavia?

19 JUDGE MAY: He's already answered that several times.

20 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] All right. If you're letting me put

21 two more questions, I'm going to put my next two questions.

22 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

23 Q. Is it correct that it was precisely this same JNA - and you were

24 at the helm of the collective supreme commander - did it not agree to 14

25 cease fires during these operations, and all were requested by the

Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French and English transcripts.

1 Croatian side, doesn't that best show the attitude precisely of that

2 military leadership that you have been contesting? This Supreme Command

3 staff was founded in 1987, not later, as you were saying. Doesn't that

4 show the attitude of the Presidency and of the military leadership, that

5 is to say, to find a peaceful solution to all these problems? And each

6 and every one of these cases, the army did accept your requests, and in

7 their reports that I have received here, it says that they did not open

8 fire anywhere, only in the places where they were attacked. How do you --

9 JUDGE MAY: Let the witness answer that.

10 A. We are not establishing negative facts here. We are talking about

11 positive facts. That is to say that the Supreme Command staff can become

12 operational --

13 JUDGE MAY: [Previous translation continues]... translation.

14 THE INTERPRETER: Can you hear the English channel? Can you hear

15 the English channel?

16 JUDGE MAY: Yes. It's all right. Yes. Let's go on.

17 Yes, Mr. Mesic.

18 A. The Supreme Command staff can be activated only in case of war and

19 only in case of imminent threat of war. A decision on that is to be

20 passed by the Presidency of Yugoslavia. Such a decision was never

21 reached.

22 As for the ceasefire, there were ceasefires, as far as I know this

23 was the case, yes, 14 times. I'm not going into who had requested a

24 ceasefire; there were ceasefires. But the army was carrying out the

25 assignment it got, to cover the area that the paramilitaries had put under

1 their control before that and they expelled the non-Serb population from

2 that area.

3 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

4 Q. All right. So I'm entitled to one more question only. This area

5 that you are talking about were UN-protected areas after that, and I see

6 that you learned this very well, this sadly composed false indictment. My

7 question is the following: Now that you are working for this illegal

8 Tribunal, do you really believe you can evade criminal responsibility for

9 crimes?

10 JUDGE MAY: That's not a proper question. The witness is a

11 witness before the Tribunal, he's not working for it, as you know quite

12 well.

The Freedom Association in Belgrade and the ICDSM, based outside Yugoslavia, are the two organizations formed at the request of Slobodan Milosevic to aid in his defense.

Up until now our main work has been threefold. We have publicized the truth about The Hague's phony trial. We have organized research to help President Milosevic expose NATO's lies. And we have initiated legal action in the Dutch and European Courts.

Now our job has increased. The defense phase of the "trial" starts in May 2003. No longer will Mr. Milosevic be limited to cross-examining Hague witnesses. The prosecution will be forced further onto the defensive as victims of NATO's aggression and experts from Yugoslavia and the NATO countries tell what really happened and expose media lies. Moreover, Mr. Milosevic will call leaders, from East and West, some friendly and some hostile to the truth.

The controlled mass media will undoubtedly try to suppress this testimony as they have tried to suppress Mr. Milosevic's cross-examinations. Nevertheless this phase of the "trial" will be the biggest international forum ever to expose NATO's use of racism, violence and lies to attack Yugoslavia.

We urgently need the help of all people who care about what is happening in The Hague. Right now, Nico Steijnen , the Dutch lawyer in the ICDSM, is waging legal battles in the Dutch courts and before the European Court, about which more news soon. These efforts urgently require financial support. We now maintain a small staff of Yugoslav lawyers in Holland, assisting and advising Mr. Milosevic full-time. We need to expand our Dutch facilities, perhaps bringing in a non-Yugoslav attorney full-time. Definitely we must guarantee that we have an office and office manager available at all times, to compile and process evidence and for meetings with witnesses and lawyers and as a base for organizing press conferences.

All this costs money. And for this, we rely on those who want Mr. Milosevic to have the best possible support for attacking NATO's lies.

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